So first off let me apologize for this being a little bit late, I have no good excuses so sorry if anyone had to go back to do this one, I'll have to make it good!
My topic was on Germany vs. Russia, and we've talked a lot in class about how Russia was a bit of an "oddball" because it's philosophies and actions were more like to those of Germany but it was allied with the Allies. This wasn't really because of it's choice but because Hitler wouldn't have them as allies either.
This reading went pretty in depth into Hitler as a person, and what his possible motives could've been for what he wanted. A big similarity I caught between this reading and what I know of Stalin and Russia is that they were very naive-sounding people, very preocuppied with their own visions of glory. Hitler dreamed of how he would repopulate and organize Russia, while Stalin was pretty much obsessed with having total, complete control, without any objections. Possibily the biggest similarity I saw between Stalin and Hitler was their complete and total stubbornness and their belief that they were always correct, that facts were somehow meaningless. The entire time the Eastern front was being fought both believed only what they wanted and acted on only what they thought they heard, to me this is a huge part of why the Eastern front was so brutal. Stalin refused to believe that Germany was planning an attack on them despite clear evidence that it was happening, while Hitler vastly underestimated the power of Russia and the length of time that the German troops would be there. My question for you all to ponder is this, if Hitler hadn't hated communism the way he did, do you think that the war would've ended differently?
Hmmm... Well even if hitler himself hadn't hated communism so much, the rest of the world did (including his supporters in Germany) so he probably never could have been allied with them. Fascists will always hate communists, but maybe if both germany and the ussr had been communist or fascist, they would have been allies. And if they had been, they probably would have been very hard to defeat. Hitler expended a lot of enegy and troops on the eastern front, and if he hadn't had to do that, he could have focused on the west. This would have given him a giant advantage, since Russia is so huge and had so many troops. Russia and Germany would have been a very formidable alliance.
ReplyDeleteHitler wanted to rule a vast empire, so I think that even if Russia had remained Germany's ally Hitler would have eventually turned on her. He had a habit of treating his allies poorly. For example, whenever Mussolini travelled to meet with Hitler, Hitler did most of the talking and Mussolini was just another audience. Hitler was only concerned with glorifying himself, and would use any means possible to do so, including turning on former allies.
ReplyDeleteI think Melissa is right that Germany and Russia would've mad a strong alliance. They both shared a common hatred for Democracy and were willing to go to extreme measures to win. While I agree with Shannon that Hitler treated his allies awful, I also agree with Abby that Hitler and Stalin were also very much alike so it would've ended in a competition to see who would come out on top resulting in more tension, just like the the US and the Russia did anyways.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Hitler would have been more willing to ally himself with Russia. I think his Charismatic self could have won support from Germany even if they didn't believe in communism, when Hitler was installed as a leader the government still thought they could control him, so I think he could have convinced them that everything would be all right. And then assuming that an alliance did occur, I think the US would have had to get involved much earlier in the war because a Russia Germany alliance would have been very powerful in Europe.
ReplyDeleteYes, I think the war would have gone very differently. I don't think it goes back to Hitler's personal preference so much as the country's agenda. Germany feared communism, so that is one of the big reasons that Germans accepted Nazism. If, however, both Germany and the Soviet Union had been on the same political page then yes, as Melissa said, they would have made a formidable alliance.
ReplyDeleteAs for Abby's question, I think the war would of ended the same way whether or not Hitler hated Communism with the fiery passion of a thousand burning suns. Even if Hitler did not hate Communists I think he still would of used the same strategy to the USSR.
ReplyDeleteAs for if the USSR was the USSR, United States of Stalin's Russia(sorry bad joke). I think that such a thing would not be possible considering the Russian Revolution, but if it did work out I think that it would not last long because they were two huge superpowers that they were bound to clash. Look at the US and the USSR during the cold war. One war we are allies the next we are at war.
Because Hitler was so charismatic, if he hadn't hated communism so much I think he would have been able to pull off an alliance with Russia. I agree with Abby that they already had a lot in common so if they were politically aligned as well I think it would have benefitted them to aid each other. Together they would have been much stronger and like Kate said I think that would have forced the US into acting sooner.
ReplyDeleteFor sure, I think the war could've ended differently. The hatred between the communists and fascists was a huge factor in causing the extreme violence and destruction of the Eastern Front. This hatred led to the desperation and refusal to back down that caused death on such a large scale. Hitler ordered "maximum cruelty" and a "no-retreat" policy for the invasion of Russia, and both countries were willing to fight to the last man. It was Hitler's recklessness in invading Russia, his insistence on taking resources in Ukraine and on dividing the armies to attack multiple locations and then finally attacking Moscow in the winter of 1941, that made his invasion fail. Maybe, if he hadn't let personal vendettas cloud his judgement, things would have gone differently. Not ignoring the fact that his previous failure at the Battle of Britain ultimately contributed to the United States involvement, I think it is still a distinct possibility that this could have made a difference or even changed the outcome of the war.
ReplyDeleteI agree that if both Germany and Russia had the same political views, they would have had a strong alliance. They already had the common denominator of hating democracy, and had many other countries hating them. They would have been difficult to defeat, which would have drastically changed the war. The U.S. would have gotten involved earlier and Germany might have won at the Battle of Britain, which would have been huge, because earlier we talked about how that was one of the turning points of the war. Eliminating the hatred of communism definitely would have changed the way the war ended.
ReplyDeleteI think because of all the power Hitler wanted and his ability to gain control Germany would have been in the same spot. But there definitely would be differences in alliances. Like most said I think Germany and Russia would have come together, they both wanted respect and power and Stalin and Hitler shared the same ideals. So as far as them I think that they would have been unite a force to be reckoned with.
ReplyDeleteI still think tensions between the axis and the allied powers would have forced the US to join whether it be bc of Japan's actions I am not sure. They may have been forced to join sooner not wanting the allies to lose.
I don't think Hitler was necessarily going against Russia because it was communist, even though that was a huge way he got the people on his side, by promoting ideas of anti-communism. I really think he only did that to gain support; he knew that everyone hated communists, so he drove everyone against them. Siding with Russia would be like, "hey, guys, even though we totally hate this country and everything they stand for, and in the end we want to destroy their belief system entirely, we're going to fight with them, ok?" That would create uneasiness and social tension in Germany, which would cause weakness which would have prevented Germany from winning the war. So I don't think it was necessarily because Hitler hated communism; if Hitler thought it was in Germany's best interests to stay sided with Russia, perhaps the war would have been different.
ReplyDeleteI don't think the war would have ended differently if Hitler hadn't hated Communism. The fact was that Hitler wanted to expand German influence and Russia was going to be in those plans with or without communism.
ReplyDeleteMaybe there wouldn't have been brutal fighting on the Easternfront if Hitler didn't hate the communists but that still wouldn't have changed the war either way. Like what Ben said Hitler was going to expand German influence and spread Nazisim (I don't know if thats a real word) regardless of communisim.
ReplyDeleteWell, Communism and Nazism are at very different ends of the spectrum. When Hitler came to power, his party was the "Workers' Party", and, often degraded for this, Communism provides a way for people to do less work, yet still receive a ration.
ReplyDeleteIf Hitler hadn't turned on Stalin, I think the war would have gone on longer in the Pacific, but I don't think it would have been substantial enough to halt the liberation in Europe. The USSR could have been a threat with Japan, but they were slow to mobilize and did not have the most powerful navy.